Using Your Own Experience To Be A Better Doula With Christina Lundy
-
Transcript
Welcome to Dula Tips and Tits, the podcast where we cut through the noise and get real about what it takes to build a sustainable doula business. I'm Kaylee Harrod. I've been a doula informally for 14 years and full time for seven.
Around here, we don't sugarcoat stuff. We talk autonomy, owning your worth, creating a business that works for you. No fluff, no burnout, just the honest truth on how to be your own best boss. Let's get into today.
you Hello and welcome back to doula tips and tips. We have another guest on today and I'm very excited to have her with me. Christina Lundy is a certified birth and postpartum doula from East Atlanta, and she is also mom to five kiddos and she's a childbirth educator a doula trainer and agency owner.
Christina, I will welcome welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here and I would love for you to share a bit about yourself and how you got into doula work with the listeners. Yeah, so thanks for the welcome.
Super excited to be here and kind of chat get to know each other a bit better. So after when I was pregnant with my now seven year old, I was attempting to be back and the provider that I had at the time did the old bait and switch tactic.
You can have a feedback and then at 36 weeks wanted to schedule the C section. And so I kind of freaked out, thought about changing providers but couldn't do that due to insurance. And truly, because of the support, I mean, we were only working together for about five weeks.
But just the support that she offered and the knowledge that she brought to the table just really inspired me. And two, it was a way for me to be able to still stay at home a lot with my kids. I was a stay at home mom at the time.
But I'll still be able to contribute to the household financially. And so did you have a doula with your previous births prior to that one or no? No. So the fourth baby was the first one where I had a doula.
I ended up hiring the second doula or the same doula for the fifth pregnancy. And again, the experience, the support that she offered was so invaluable. you Yeah, so before we started recording, we were chatting about some of your story and how it kind of really has impacted everything about how you're a doula.
And I would love to kind of open that up for you to share whatever feels good to share around how that last pregnancy went for you. Yeah, so I had decided to become a doula, signed up for training, and then we had some family stuff go on.
So decided not to go to training and put it off. And then in 2018, we were doing everything to not get pregnant and ended up pregnant with my youngest and had a terrible pregnancy. My back pain was so bad.
Sometimes I was in a wheelchair, couldn't walk. And it just was a very trying year season of our lives. And then came the day that I went into labor, which I was unrealistically so excited about. And my water broke for the first time.
She was my fifth pregnancy, and my water had never ruptured naturally. So I was super excited about that. And to kind of make a long story short, during labor, my uterus ruptured. And I was so excited about it.
And I was so excited about it. And I was so excited about it. And I I was so excited about it. And I was so excited about it. And I was so excited about it. And I didn't know I had I've seen so much strength and grit.
from my daughter, her will, you know, even just something as simple as crawling the right way, walking the right way, being able to jump the right way. You know, just, there's been a lot of beauty in it while that situation was traumatic, hard, scary.
Yeah, there's been a lot of beauty and grace sprinkled in the midst of it. So when I was about three months postpartum, I sat down one day and was praying and thinking about wanting to become a doula, was watching, you know, our bank account realistically, like just dwindle.
And, you know, I had to figure something out to contribute. And the Lord just made it really clear, you know, well, let me back up a bit. During that phase, I ended up with PTSD, postpartum rage, postpartum OCD, anxiety, a little bit of psychosis, I believe that wasn't diagnosed, but just lots of mental health challenges throughout that whole postpartum period.
I remember one day, which trigger warning going to get into, you know, deep dark intrusive thoughts, but I'm not ashamed to talk about this because this is our story. And I think that, you know, there's lots of value in sharing even the good times, you know, there's beauty and grace in this story, but also the really dark hard times to see, you know, to make other moms who may experience this feel like someone's in their corner.
Yeah. So I remember at one point I was having these thoughts of taking my baby by the ankles and slamming her up against the wall. And I felt so alone. I felt terrible. Cause anyone who knows me outside of the season knows I adore children.
I went to school to be a teacher. I've worked with kids since I was 12 years old. Like, I love kids and babies. And so then when I started having those thoughts and feelings about my own child that had to fight to be here, the guilt and the weight of that is indescribable.
And, you know, the whole season was just, I don't think that my support system truly understood how bleak and dark it was. You know, the day that everything happened, the day my daughter was born, you know, we were just rejoicing that her and I survived.
And, you know, after the initial group of interventions from the medical team. wasn't much else needed at that point, but while physically both of us were okay, there was, for me specifically, there was a lot of other stuff going on.
I remember sitting in the hospital and looking at her, you know, they give you that card with their footprints, like babies here and stuff, and it had blood on it, and I lost it. Just the sight of blood.
I was like, there shouldn't be no. I just gave birth to a child, but in that state, I just was so traumatized. I remember one day sitting at the kitchen table and just these flashbacks of just the noises, the lights, the sounds, and then, you know, ended up being diagnosed with PTSD.
And, you know, not to throw my ex-husband under the bus, you know, that's completely not the intention. I don't think that he fully understood postpartum mood or anxiety disorders, but there was a lot of lack of support.
I don't think that he fully understood how dark it was. You know, I tried to create this schedule where I could sleep part of the night and then he would be up with the baby the other six hours of the night and he just told me, you know, I didn't sign up for that.
And so that started, that was really the day that everything took a really dark turn for me. But it is, you know, from my childhood I was severely self-speak up, asked for help, and then to be met with that it just kind of fell apart.
And, you know, fast forward some time and that's where I started having that thought of injuring my child. And I communicated to him, told him, you know, I'm having these thoughts and I don't really remember what else was said, but I do remember what he did and he did nothing.
And that was part of the problem of why the darkness got worse and worse over time. And so, you know, that happened around from what I remember maybe six to eight weeks postpartum and then fast forward some time to around 12 weeks postpartum.
I sat down to pray and, you know, the Lord was just clear that, like, this is what I've called you to do. You know, are you going to be obedient? And felt like I don't have anyone in my corner. I don't even want to stand in the gap to fill in the empty places to hold me.
up when I can't stand up emotionally, you know, theoretically on my own. I'm all alone in this. And, you know, I don't, not angry or mad at my support system. I just feel like maybe they didn't truly understand that, you know, when mom has PTSD, check in with her once a week, or go over and offer to drop off dinner, you know, even past that.
So we had around like two weeks of people doing that, which was great and a blessing. But when you have this added trauma, you know, physically, I didn't feel like I could take care of my children on my own until six months postpartum, but I was expected to do it a week postpartum.
So, you know, it's just that big massive gap of support that can happen in the United States. Some of my family, most of my family lives out of state, but he had family local. And so, yeah, it was just a really trying time.
You know, eventually I ended up going to a facility to get on medication and get not intrusive kind of deep therapy, you know, that type of stuff. And does, do I still have bad days now? Sure, but overall, like those thoughts and those feelings are, you know, many years, many months behind me.
And I just want to encourage, you know, anyone who might be experiencing those things is there is light at the end of the tunnel. And in that midst of January to the summer of 2019, I didn't see a way out.
And I didn't, like, because I was so sleep deprived, I didn't fully understand how bad it was. But now that I'm, you know, sleeping well and in my sound mind, I would be petrified if somebody told me they were having those thoughts of harming their baby in that way.
I would have taken their child, you know, and gotten them help. So the fact that her dad did nothing, it crushes me, honestly, that she honestly, in my opinion, she was in danger if I was having those thoughts.
Yeah. Well, and that's where I think postpartum psychosis like is terrifying, but also real, like has to be taken seriously. And it's not your fault for having it, right? And we, I think stigmatize it still so much.
And so then it's like, well, I'm just a bad mom or I'm just a bad parent. I'm just a bad person for thinking these things and not being able to handle it. But I'm like, your body didn't recover for probably at least a year just from the blood loss.
There are so many layers physically that you're dealing with in that scenario on top of the grief of leaving, an entire organ. I mean, I'm assuming this resulted in a hysterectomy for you. Is that true?
That's the Lord's grace. I actually did, it did not result in a hysterectomy. So I have an opportunity to get pregnant, you know, if, and when I decide to go that route. And that's where, you know, I do find beauty in this because my twin sister actually, eight and a half months after my birth trauma went through an AFE and did have to have a hysterectomy.
You know, that was a no question. Um, so, you know, while I was still in the cusp of healing from my own trauma, I then was traveling to Florida multiple times, um, that first year trying to support her through her AFE.
So it just was a lot, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and when you think about your doula work, like I, I mean, I think. there's two things that I always go back to of like, you've had your own kiddos, you've had your own pregnancies.
There's some level of like, yeah, I've been through this and I, I can like, you know, re relate to you pregnant person, you know, client of mine, et cetera. But also I think when you've had a hard thing or you've had things that you did not control or like, I have a weird uterus.
So I, so like for me, I'm like, yeah, there's like biologically my uterus doesn't work how it should work. And it's like a weird shape. Like, so there's, these are things I don't control how that plays out in my pregnancies and my births is not something I control.
And I think that makes me a better doula because it helps me to have empathy. I, I love supporting like very normal, straightforward labor processes. Right. But like, my like skill set is for sure, like twists and turns that you did not see coming, you know, because that has been my whole journey.
And, and there is a balance there, I think, of course, of like projecting our stuff on people, but also using what we have been through as a learning place to help support and empathize and meet people where they are, normalize things, have, have things ready in terms of resources, et cetera.
So I would love to hear how like all of that that happened with your youngest has informed your doula work. And what does it look like in your mind? Like, how is your doula work different because of that experience that you've had?
Yeah, that's a great question. I think that I bring an added layer to the work that I do. And I'm able, for instance, it was a running joke for many years that, you know, don't hire me for a home birth because you're going to get transferred every single home birth that was on my calendar for five years transferred.
And I was just like, what is good? Do I bring the bad vibes? Like what is happening? But then I realized, you know, a lot of times when home births transfer, it can be traumatic. And so I bring an added layer of support that, you know, for instance, one of my partners for a while was 20 something, didn't have kids, was just in this like la-di-da type of mentality.
Not that that's bad or wrong. I just bring a different perspective and a different level of support that, you know, a mama who's had a previous loss, a mama who's been sexually abused, a mama who has been raped.
Like I can support these moms in ways that other doulas might be incapable of doing. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny that you say that because I had my first year, I think, like maybe a year and a half.
I had... maybe 11 different emergency situations that like this one doula friend of mine jokingly was like statistically, this is impossible for you to have seen all of these emergencies and the number you've had.
And I'm like, is it me? Like do I? But it was things like a uterine rupture, you know, like, like actual emergencies that nobody caused that it isn't something that we could have anticipated, you know, but that meant that I had experience with all of those emergencies.
And then had also seen some things that some doulas never see, even if they doula people for years, you know, and I was like, I literally just jumped into the deep end of doula work, like, got baptized by fire into this field.
Yeah. Yeah. And that happened to me as well. Two, I think it was two summers ago. No, it was one summer ago. I ended up having two late losses in a row. And one was in June, one was in August, and I had done around 50 births at that time.
And I was so angry for a while that like statistically that doesn't happen to 100 births. But again, I brought the skill set that those two moms needed. And, you know, it was, I truth be told, I almost left doula work, because two situations, I really questioned if I could keep going, I totally took births off for like an entire month, and only focused on postpartum work.
And, you know, did some deep soul searching and trying to navigate and figure out and grieve in my own way. You know, I had anticipated being able to support these clients, get excited, you know, when labor happened came around.
And while my grief is minuscule compared to theirs, I still had to give myself, I took like a full two weeks off and didn't know work and, you know, that you, one of the questions that you had asked was how, how has my doula work evolved and changed over the years?
And it wholeheartedly is that, you know, if I need some time off, I take the time off, I'm now in place of my business where I can financially do that. Um, but I try to take care of myself first and that's been something that's been really good and valuable for me to learn over the years.
Yeah. I think, I mean, it is something that like, especially because service-based businesses or service-based business people, like we're, we're usually kind of heart led folks, right? Like we like care so deeply about our.
people, our clients. And so it's easy to put them in front of us and ahead of us. And there, I mean, in the midst of a birth, that's one thing, but in the, like all of your life, you cannot do that every single day, you know?
And I, I remember, um, as you know, a mom to toddlers, I flew once with my kids when they were little and I have three and they're all, they were three under three. So they were like close together in age.
And they were saying, you know, you have to your own oxygen mask on before you put your kids on. And I'm like, how do I, why would I do that? And how would I do that? And how do I then put masks on these three people?
And when I think about my doula work, I think it is really easy to be like, it doesn't matter. Like if I'm like slowly dying, I need to support these people at all costs, you know? And the reality is like, they're going to get really crappy support.
If I am not putting my own oxygen mask on first, right? Like if I'm not doing that, they're getting crappy support. And that, it can be as simple as saying like, I, like you have that kind of trauma, which is significant.
And a lot of doulas don't have someone have a loss, right? But especially like a later term loss. That's one of the emergencies that I had at the early starts with my business. Um, but when you have something like that, like not just compartmentalizing it and keep, keeping going, right?
Like not just saying, okay, someone else's do, I have a postpartum shift tomorrow, you know? And I mean, that's kind of a more significant scenario, but I think about even like, I remember when I was first attending births, I'd be like, okay, this, this baby's coming like probably around like 11 a.m.
And then I'm going to leave them around like one, I could still do that, that like shift tonight at four. And now I'm like, no, tonight, tomorrow is canceled. Why? Because I need to sleep, like I need to.
recover from this. And so even just those small things of being like, I'm going to do, I'm going to say no to this thing to take care of myself, I'm going to reschedule this person. Technically, I'm finished with this birth, but my recovery from this birth is still going, right?
Like those small things that we do, after every client matter just as much as the big things that we do when a major situation happens. Right. It's so vital. Because, you know, you mentioned the heart that we have to give.
And doula, I mean, burnout in any field is very real. But with this, I call it compassion fatigue, where you just, you have nothing else to give. And, you know, I'm a single mom now. And my heart, the last three years has been, I don't want my kids growing up feeling ever, like I put work before them.
Now, if somebody goes to labor on Christmas day, I'm gonna go support them, right? If somebody goes into labor on their birthday, I'm gonna go support them. But my kids know over all that they came first.
Recently, one of my kiddos got an award at school and they were throwing this big thing in the evening and somebody was getting induced that day and my daughter was really nervous about it. And long story short, I went to the event and then supported them the next day.
Like everything was fine, but that was a good learning lesson for her that no matter what, if I'm able to, I'm gonna be there. And, but you have to also understand there's two sides of that. My clients have also hired me and I'm gonna be there for them as well.
And so maybe I do dates with my kids once a month. Maybe we might have to reschedule a date, but overall you're gonna, you're the priority. So it's very important in this world. I think it's important, but this one specifically, a hundred percent have healthy boundaries.
And if that looks like, you know, once a week, taking the day off, you know, do it. Cause it is hard to send those texts. Hey, I can't come tonight because I've been at a birth all day and I didn't get to sleep.
And I think, you know, one thing that I always do, especially with postpartum clients that I'm interviewing with is communicate those boundaries. This is what support looks like. This is what it doesn't look like.
And they have to understand that like, yes, birth comes first. We can't control that. We can't schedule it for the most part. And, you know, I've had clients, postpartum clients be upset about that, but I'm like, I communicated that to you.
You knew this was a possibility in hiring. Um, I had waited until 36 weeks to find a postpartum doula that she wanted three nights a week and it was like, this is what I have to offer and I'm sorry, you're upset and I wish there was something else I can do, but I can't come to your house and not give you great service.
I mean, it's also not safe. You're tired and you're taking care of a baby. You know, like, why does she want you to come when you're Yeah, I think sometimes good. I'm not going to say that. I don't, I don't, um, parents, I've even had postpartum clients text me, Hey, the baby's crying.
Can you quiet them down? And I'm like, it's a baby. Like, yeah, they cry. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's, there's definitely. It depends on the person. I would say in our company, like the vast majority of our postpartum folks are very understanding of rescheduling due to babies because they were just that person, you know, like they're like, yeah, my labor also just happened out of nowhere and no one knew it was going to be today,
you know, or they're like, yes, I just got amazing support through my birth too. And so you also should have that, you know, like that is like the vast majority of peoples in our space, at least the vast majority of people's attitudes around it.
But there are times where someone's like, I need you to have a backup in line. And I'm like, I had one, we had one family overnight that I was like, we literally had two people who were supposed to be on backup call for you.
And they're all three at birth. Like, we don't control this, you know, and I was just like, also, we can't guarantee it'll never happen again. Like probably not, but also this is our actual work. Like, this is how this works.
And we told you, you know, but I mean, most people are like, yeah, I get it, you know, babies come whenever they want. And then you don't control that, you know, so. Right. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's really valuable to have, because I've even had, and one of the things that I've learned over the years, like be careful who you align with for backup.
Yes. Yeah. Because that same mom that was upset that, you know, I had to reschedule for a birth. I had backup for that contract. And it's a long story. I don't want to get into the details of it, but long story short, that backup ended up not being reliable.
And so, you know, for newer doulas out there, I think it's very valuable to be selective and to find someone that is very similar in your values. the way that you do, uh, you know, those types that are somewhat similar in your boundaries that you have, um, because, you know, I mean, there's things that I would do for some clients, you know, two, three years ago that I would never do now.
Like I was too busy and, you know, if those clients came around again and wanted to hire me again, we would have those clear boundaries. Yeah. So, and that's, you know, the, the doula that I, that I train other doulas with, um, James Jatin McKinney.
Um, that's where her and I have matched and we've had lots of hard conversations, you know, we're, we've been in partnership now for about a year and we've had conflicts, we've had disagreeing, you know, ideologies or ways we wanted to do certain things.
Um, but I remember one day recently we were on the phone talking and I was like it's almost like we have to be married because it's that type of relationship where sometimes she compromises and sometimes I need to compromise and you know get on the same page and you know those those conversations definitely need to happen outside of in front of the client you know to present almost a unified front those types of things are really vital and to you know to make doula work sustainable for me one of the other things that I added that I forgot for whatever reason to put on my intake was I teach this curriculum called fourth trimester fitness method and it's about how to get moms prepared for labor and then recovering postpartum as well I'm certified to teach it's called prep for birth and so that's like another income way you know avenue that that brings in a little bit of extra money to where I'm not feeling pressure to take three and four and five clients every single month you know I try to take no more than 30 to 35 clients a year and so what I call it backwards math I did a spreadsheet of all of the bills what it costs to replace my car every so many years what it costs to replace my computer in internet bill like everything I could think of and even massages I included massages because I try to get a massage every third birth so that's around every month for me and I you know added all of that up and then I divided it by 35 and then I was like that's what my fee is gonna be yeah know,
because I live in Atlanta, it's a higher market. You know, this isn't Valdosta, Georgia, it's Atlanta, where people are living in multiple million dollar homes. And do what I love to make my services affordable for everyone, 100%.
But but something that happened recently, my youngest, so she still has delays and different things that she deals with because of her birth. And she needed physical therapy. And it was going to be very expensive.
And I just realized, you know, I have to pay myself from the business, a certain salary, because my child is not going to be without what she wants. When I watch my clients who live in 500 $700,000 houses.
And so, you know, yes, my fee is $2,000. It's that's the base. It goes up to 35. And That is a lot of money. If I was to see that, you know, five years ago as a, as a mom trying to hire a doula, I would be like, Oh, there's no way.
But now having done this work, having seen the value of the doulas in my community and the value that I bring to the table, I'm not ashamed to, to charge that in Atlanta. Would I charge that in Valdosta?
Maybe not. But, you know, rent is expensive. Gas is okay-ish. Groceries are expensive. You know, everything's expensive now. And so that's another tip that I have for new, newer doulas. Do your backwards math.
Don't take on a client and sacrifice your own self-care, your own children, your own bills, those types of things. Because at the end of the day, this is a business. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually, one of the, one of the worksheets that I have that people can get is my service, like how to make your service packages.
And that's one of the things I talk about in there is that we like do not do that backwards math, where we're like, Oh, I guess I'll charge around this. And then I need this amount to live every year.
And I'm like, but these two numbers will not ever equal each other. This is not, you're not going to get there from this number. And when we're scared to charge enough money, we are the ones that suffer in that like our, us and our families, you know?
And that took me many years to feel comfortable, like charging what I needed to. And now like I charge a lot and I'm like, yeah, because this work is intense on your body. It's very, very, very hard on your family on, you know, it's expensive to do in DC.
You pay to park at hospitals, et cetera. Right. A lot of expense involved in even just being present at a birth too, that we don't always think about, you know, and, and. As a smaller business owner, I think like it's easy to be like, Oh, I'll charge you a thousand dollars and I need 20,000.
So I'll have a, you know, 20, 20 clients. And I'm like, yeah, but it's not also that cut and dry because you're paying taxes on that money you're needing to replenish your money. For me, I'm always like, how frequently am I going to need new shoes?
Cause my feet hurt every time I go to a birth when my shoes get old, you know, like things that we have to build in or we are going to slowly fizzle and then our clients are going to feel the suffering of that, you know, and they're not going to have the support that we want them to have.
We are not taking care of ourselves. Right. And that's the heart. Um, the woman who owns 40 FM fourth trimester fitness method, her name is Emily. I'm not going to try to say her last name on murder it.
Um, but that's her heart is the average doula last two years. And so when I met her. Um, may of this year and she, you know, I had already been a doula. I was pushing five years at that point. I was like, wow, like I'm doing great.
But then she was like, well, what are you doing to recover from births? Physically, emotionally. And she is a type of person that I'm so grateful to have met because, you know, as I don't know if you've ever heard the saying like iron sharpens iron.
And she is that type of, she wants me to charge 2,500 with my expertise. Yeah. I was going to say, you should go up from two. I just went up to two over the summer. So give it a little time to settle in a little, I'm already gone up five birds since I bumped it.
So maybe I'll bump it to 21. I don't know. We'll see. Um, 20 to 50. Hold me accountable by the end of the year. Um, or January. Maybe when this episode comes out. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Um, but yeah, it's so great in this work to meet people network and, and get people that are going to encourage you.
So she has this great saying it's, um, I'm not the Honda, I'm the Ferrari. And if you want the Ferrari, you're going to pay for it. And I just, you know, that has stuck with me over the months that, you know, because two, I wanted to mention this.
I've had other doulas, um, who've been a doula for, I don't even know how long decades question, you know, why is your fee $2,000 when, you know, you've only been doing this five years and, um, but the way that we do our business is so different where I kind of offer unlimited support, whether it's me or back up there, this doula comes in when you're roaring at eight centimeters.
Yeah. I, I want to be with you before that. And so don't allow other people's narrative, opinions, thoughts to kind of dictate, like at the end of the day, this is your business. And that's one of the things I kind of preach to the dual as I train is, that's the great thing about all this.
You can offer just one prenatal, you can offer no prenatals, you can offer this whole built up package with a ribozo and a birth ball and all these bells and whistles. That's the great part about being your own boss is you can do what you want and travel.
And down the road, I really want to travel and eventually this business is gonna afford that. And to think that, I mean, my business is only a year and a half old. If I, I would have never thought a year and a half ago, two years ago when I was opening this that I would be able to take an entire month off.
but it's about that networking. Have people in your sphere that are gonna sharpen you, encourage you when the days are hard because they're gonna come in this work. I mean, and I'll say this story really quick as well because I think it's really relevant.
I recently broke my ankle and I did it maybe less than 24 hours before someone gave birth. And in my contract, it says that I will do everything I can to send back up. If you don't call me though, then the fees remain the same.
This client felt that they should have had a refund, a partial refund because I wasn't able to go. And I loved this couple, wanted to work with them again, et cetera. But Emily was one of the people that was like, your contract says what it says.
It's right there. They chose not to call you, that's on them. And so I think that's a good narrative for a newer dualist to understand. Yes, we're very emotional people, heart-driven, like you mentioned, but at the end of the day, this is a business and you have to cover yourself before you get the warm fuzzy feelings mixed in there as well.
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I mean, I think for me, it's easy to again, like sacrifice yourself in a way that's unhealthy, but like I have a whole team of doulas now and I have no problem setting boundaries for them because I'm like, what I'm not gonna do is send you a doula while you're like cursing people out in the midst of your birth.
No, if you're abusing people in the midst of your birth, you no longer have our services, right? Like there's a space where like at a certain level, you also know, need to set boundaries for the other people that you're working with, if you're working with other folks, to also keep them safe.
And like, I remember saying to my husband in that scenario, and I won't get into the whole scenario at the moment, but like, in the midst of a birth, the client was being abusive towards the doula. The doula was like, I can't work with them anymore.
And I said to my husband, like, I guess I'll just go. And he was like, no, why would you go? And I was like, well, I can't just not have them have a doula. And he's like, you actually can, like, you can fire them as your clients because they are abusing.
Like, it's not a safe scenario for you or any of your team members to be in. And I think when we think about ourselves, like, there are so many times that we put ourselves last. And even in a scenario where it's like, you actually did this, like you, if you were abusive to her.
you would still have doula care. It wasn't us that made this scenario for you. We want to be with you. We were with you. And then you're the one who messed it up. And I think our contracts have to have those ironclad things in it.
We can always decide how we're going to manage it, but the reality is that we've got to have the protection of that because it is not sustainable to be refunding people right and left. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. I had another client, the babies to now, actually, I think maybe today or yesterday. And, you know, she decided to hire a postpartum doula because with her first, she didn't really have a lot of support.
Her husband was feeding her, but she was just so overwhelmed during her first. Well, then she had her next one and kind of didn't really need my support. And now it does say in my contract that you have to use these hours within six weeks of the start date.
It spells it all out. But in that situation, I was like, you know what? You're not needing the help. Like I literally would go there and look at the walls. Like what do I do? And so in that situation, you know, and I was able that month to financially do it.
I gave her a partial refund and, but that's the beauty of it. Like set those boundaries. And if you decide that you want to do something different, then you have the right to do that. But in this day and age, people, I've had all types of, you know, scenarios over the years where people are just trying to get more for their money.
And you have to have kind of those ironclad. And I, thankfully I've not had it happen, but in the event that someone was being abusive towards me, then yeah, I would, I. I think I would leave the room too.
And yeah, just warn, you know, her and or dad, hey, yeah, I'm here because you asked me to be I don't have to be here. Yeah. And I think even as a newer doula, you know, it's important to remember that there's no amount of money that is worth losing your dignity and your self respect.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I would maybe advocate for everyone to have what we call now lovingly an asshole clause. If you like, I'm like, if you're racist, if you are, you know, if you're physically, emotionally, verbally abusive, if you're like, cursing out one of my team members, like any of that stuff is included in there.
Because I'm like, the vast majority of our people, I mean, hopefully we never again have this scenario, right? Like the vast majority of our clients are lovely. even in like they, they're having a hard time, but they're not abusing us, you know?
But if that's happening, like you don't, you don't get to be a jerk and also have all of the support that like, oh, do we lose each other for a sec? Yeah, we did for a second. Yeah, so I mean, I think, I think that those kinds of clauses also is a benefit to know and hear other people's stories.
So you can add those into your own contract. So you can also be like, oh, I haven't had that yet, but Kaylee did mention that. And so I'm going to put that in there that like, if someone were to physically or verbally abused me, I have the right to terminate their contract with no refund, right?
Like that is an important piece in part because you're not going to make that money back. If that person's currently due, like you're not going to last minute have someone hire you to compensate for that in your business, you know?
Right. So yeah. I know a doula based out of Alaska that literally in her contract, it says, I will not feed your farm animals. I will not milk your goat and, you know, fast forward sometime a lawyer ended up hiring her and he was like, I bet you have some really good stories.
Yeah. And it's like, I get it, right? Like you're in the middle of postpartum, it's January and Alaska, but you've chosen to have these farm animals. Yeah. You've chosen not to find somebody. Yeah. Take care of them.
Yeah. Like I don't mind feeding a dog or taking them on a walk. Yeah. But a goat? Yeah. Well, and milking versus feeding. Right. Right. Yeah. Like I am shocked that somebody, I mean, I grew up riding horses and I would have just like, I don't know, I forget what it's called.
like sent them somewhere. Like, like almost like doggy daycare or something, you know, like do whatever you have to do during this one season. Yeah. You're not asking the postpartum doula to go feed the horses.
Like, no, crazy. My contract for postpartum doula includes not doing yard work. And one of my clients was like, Oh my gosh, did someone ask you to do yard work? I was like, not me, but another doula.
And so it's in there just in case. I'm like, I actually don't mind yard work with that. I am an expensive yard work person. Like, if you want that done, hire someone else, at least half my price, you know, that's not a good way to use our time together.
No, no, I think, I think it can be, I actually had this happen over the summer. I think your mom to like figure out stuff for you to do. Um, but you, that it's still not on us to like figure out that scenario.
Yeah. Either mom gives baby to us and babies kind of fussy and we figure out ways to soothe them. Yeah. Or, you know, we just sit and offer emotional support. Yeah. You know, sometimes just being together is all they need.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Typically the first like 30, 45 minutes of my shifts are like, tell me what's happened since. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. Um, I know that it's really valuable for doulas to hear how other people do this work and the things that they, um, have as part of their business and part of their kind of story around their coming into doula work.
One of the things I love about our work is that we are very diverse in how we show up for our clients and the things that we value. And so I like doulas having a bigger imagination of what their business can look like and, and even in the midst of various scenarios, people can identify with different parts, right?
Like I have three kiddos, you have five kiddos. Three sounds like a lot less than five to me, right? But if someone has four or five, six kids and they're like, okay, well, Kaylee does this, but surely has three kids and they're teenagers, you know, I need to hear from somebody who does this with smaller kids or who does this with kids who have different needs that are, you know, maybe more time consuming and more extensive.
And so I know that it is a big benefit for people to hear you share your story. And I don't take for granted that you're feeling safe about sharing that with us today. Um, and so I really appreciate you being willing and taking the time to hang out with me.
Oh, cool. I enjoyed it. Yeah. I really enjoyed getting to know you a bit and I'm sure we'll connect again sometime. Yeah. Thank you so much to all the listeners. I hope that you enjoyed this episode.
We will have another guest episode on Wednesday of next week. And then we have the solo episodes on Friday. And so we will see you in the next one. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the doula tips and tits podcast.
If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at hara doula so we can celebrate alongside you. If you found this podcast helpful, we would so appreciate you taking a second to leave a rating and a review on your favorite podcast app that helps other doulas find us as we do this work together.
This podcast is intended as educational and entertainment. It is not medical advice or business advice, but Please consult your own medical or legal team for your own needs around your health and your business.
We'll see you again soon.
Our doula businesses are often shaped, for better or worse, by our own experiences in childbirth. Today’s guest shares her experience of birth, which is in many regards quite traumatic, and shares how it has shaped her experience as a doula. Trigger Warning: there is discussion of obstetric emergencies.
Quote from Christina:
“I think that I bring an added layer to the work that I do. And I'm able, for instance, it was a running joke for many years that, you know, don't hire me for a home birth because you're gonna get transferred. Every single home birth that was on my calendar for five years transferred. And I was just like, what is good? Do I bring the bad vibes? Like what is happening? But then I realized, you know, a lot of times when home births transfer, it can be traumatic. And so I bring an added layer of support that, you know, for instance, one of my partners for a while was 20 something, didn't have kids, was just in this like la-di-da type of mentality, not that that's bad or wrong. I just bring a different perspective and a different level of support that, you know, a mama who's had a previous loss, a mama who's been sexually abused, a mama who has been raped. Like I can support these moms in ways that other doulas might be incapable of doing.”
Meet Christina Lundy
Christina Lundy is a certified birth & postpartum doula, certified childbirth educator, doula trainer, and agency owner located in East Atlanta and serves all of Metro Atlanta. She has 5 kiddos, whom she loves dearly. When she isn’t busy with a client or newer doula, you can find her outside in her garden, painting, or reading.
CONNECT with Christina:
https://www.instagram.com/byhisgraceatldoula
CONNECT with Kaely on TikTok or Instagram
https://www.tiktok.com/@doulacoach
https://www.instagram.com/Harroddoula/
If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @harroddoula
Doula Tips and Tits is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services
It is sponsored by The Doula Biz Blueprint Self-Paced Class for Doulas Launching Successful and Sustainable Businesses!
Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay
