Spinning Babies with Jennifer Walker
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Transcript
Welcome to Dula Tips and Tits, the podcast where we cut through the noise and get real about what it takes to build a sustainable doula business. I'm Kaylee Harrod. I've been a doula informally for 14 years and full time for seven.
Around here, we don't sugarcoat stuff. We talk autonomy, owning your worth, creating a business that works for you. No fluff, no burnout, just the honest truth on how to be your own best boss. Let's get into today's episode.
Hello and welcome back to Dula Tips and Tits. I am joined today with another guest, Jennifer Walker, who is the CEO of Spinning Babies. Jennifer, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here.
Oh, thank you, I'm really happy to be here.
So Jennifer is running Spinning Babies at this point. Many of you probably know the name Gayle Tully, but she is not the acting CEO at the moment, although she is the creator of Spinning Babies. And so I have Jennifer on in kind of line with all the folks that I've been chatting with around extra trainings and information that Doulas can really benefit from.
And so Jennifer, I would love for you to share a bit about yourself and how you got into this work as CEO of Spinning Babies.
Yeah, well, actually, the reason I said, oh, I'll do this podcast with you is because it felt really in alignment for me. Because I've actually been a doula for 18 years before I came into being the CEO here at Spinning Babies.
So, and my professional background was actually as a theater producer. So I had a first career in my producing theater when I was a teenager, actually already. And then I got pregnant. And as I think a lot of people know, when you have babies, your brain changes.
And so things that felt really important shift. And I was living, I'm actually a Canadian by origin. But I've been living in the Netherlands for almost 25 years. So I can connect that to my pregnancies.
I arrived here 20 weeks pregnant with my first baby. So new country, new experience. And, you know, was really glad to be in a country where home birth was a viable, real option. And I had my first baby in the hospital because I had broken waters and no contractions, and still had a physiological birth in hospital and had my second baby at home in water.
And because I was in a foreign country, I was seeking connection with other people. And I organized a play group for international parents once a week. And I started to have these conversations with parents, because of course, you talk about, you know, your birth, it's what happens.
And I was a little bit, I think I was a little, like, not a little, but I was a lot naive in believing that physiological birth was like something people would be excited about. And that, you know, that my, you know, very beautiful birth experiences would be what I would hear about.
And instead, I was kind of confronted with these stories of fear, stories of traumatic births, you know, and a lot of foreigners too. So people that came from countries where birth was very medicalized.
And then they're in the Netherlands, and they're like, people give birth at home here, and people do it without an epidural, and why would they do that? And, you know, so we were, I was having these very interesting conversations.
And I sort of tentatively started talking about the fact that I really enjoyed giving birth. I loved it. And it wasn't that it was easy, you know, but it was a very, you know, deep experience for me.
And one of the parents from the play group said, well, I'm thinking she was pregnant with her second baby. And she said, well, she said, you know, you, you did it. And she said, would you come and be at my birth?
And you could look after my three year old, you know, she had this, and I said, well, seems a little strange, but, you know, sure. And it was beautiful. And two weeks later, another mother from the play group phoned me up and said, you know, could you be at my birth?
And, and that mother knew what a doula was. And so she basically trained me to be her doula. She had me over for tea. She talked about that. And, and so kind of from one day to the next, I, I, you know, I was, uh, I always say I was like, it was the wrong time to change careers.
Uh, I was going through a divorce. I had a three -year -old and a five -year -old and I walked out of that second birth. Um, well, and, and part of it was that she had her three -year -old daughter there at the birth and I watched this little girl, um, like when a contraction was happening, she and I would be doing a puzzle and the contraction would finish and she would paddle off to her mother and go,
oh, mommy, baby's coming and, you know, kind of smile at her mother, give her a little reassurance and the next contraction would come and the daughter would go back to her puzzle. And, and she watched her baby, her baby brother be born.
And I watched how she experienced that. And I went, this is how we do it. You know, it changed something profoundly for me. And, um, yeah. So I, from, from that moment I trained as a doula and it just, the moment I made that decision, I saw something that Deborah Pascuali -Bernaro, um, who maybe some of you know from orgasmic birth, she was coming to the Netherlands to train doulas.
And so that was kind of my introduction to the world of doulas. And, um, I worked as a doula full -time for a long time and then, uh, trained doulas from 2012, um, onwards. And in 2015, um, well, and I guess what I would say is, you know, I, because I'd had this other career in theater and I was very curious, um, I just wanted to learn about birth.
And so I just started inviting people to come and teach in the Netherlands. Um, and people say yes to come to Amsterdam. If you ask somebody to come to Amsterdam, they come. So, um, that's, you know, that was a little bit of my journey in.
And one of the people that I invited to come to Amsterdam was Gayle Tully. And, um, when Gayle came, um, I, and we'll talk more about Spitting Babies in a second, but what I would say is like Gayle came, I got to the end of the workshop with a couple of my colleagues and we kind of looked at each other and we said, well, if all of what she's saying is true, then I'm going to completely change the way that I work.
And I did. And it was true.
Yeah.
And, and, yeah, I guess that's the thing maybe that's worth talking about for doulas if you don't know about spinning babies like what are you doing now and, you know, what might be interesting to consider in in what what gale specifically as a visionary brought into the field.
Mm hmm. I love your origin story, I'll call it. Because I have a very similar start where my friend was like, I think you could be a doula, you should be my doula, like you, you know, I you can learn how to do these things and then had like the easiest birth that anyone's ever had, I think, which I had zero context for at the time, you know, I was just like, Oh, I could do this so many times.
This was so easy. And he now is like, I have very easy births. I'm like, huh, yeah, I'm so glad you were my first experience. You know, but that's exactly why I became a doula because she was like, you should do this.
Like this is the thing people do, you know, so I love that. So from the time that Gail came, how did you then become the CEO? Tell us that journey real quick.
Yeah. Well, I think what Gail and I discovered, so I invited her to come, you know, she taught the workshop. We went for a walk the next day in Amsterdam and kind of what opened up in both of our fields is that why we were both doing this work felt so much in alignment in that where I had come in was seeing that, I guess what I found so hard when I was talking to these parents was you are growing a human being and you're spending nine months in fear of welcoming them into the world and I found that so hard and really where Gail and I connected was this idea that if we want to make the world a better place the way to do that is to have intact bonding and that,
you know, how a baby arrives earth side matters and you have to raise human beings. I mean, this is a crazy job, you know.
like the wild amount of responsibility.
And so, isn't it important that whenever we can, that you arrive at that point of meeting them, feeling powerful, feeling seen, feeling heard, and that the baby can arrive feeling safe, because otherwise we spend the rest of our lives trying to heal that.
Yeah. And that's where Gayle and I kind of connected in that walk and she very quickly, it was at the exact moment that she was planning to start training, spinning baby's trainers. And so she looked at me and, you know, as Gayle does it, she looked at me and she says, I saw this light above your head and I knew that you were gonna be one of my spin by these roof trainers.
And so she just said it. And I thought, this woman is just crazy. And I'm like, I am not ready. I am not ready, you know, like what she's, I'm like, and I arrived at the trainers with all the midwives, you know, and they weren't all midwives, some of whom she was.
And I was like, they're good to figure it out. I shouldn't be here. And I kind of get the same thing. I finished the training and everybody else started training. And I said, no, Gayle, you gotta come back.
We're gonna do this workshop together. We're gonna go. And I would just invite her and we would do a conference. We did the Midwifery Today conference. I would invite her. I would, you know, and I had all these reasons why I didn't start training.
And then, and then I got this, my very first inquiry that came directly from the spinning baby's website into my email inbox. And I read it and I called my mother and I said, Ma, I said, what's the name of the hospital I was born in?
And my first inquiry to teach a spinning baby's workshop was from Prince George, British Columbia, Canada. And I'm living in Amsterdam.
Mm -hmm.
asking me to come and teach a spinning babies workshop and so I called Gail and Gail's like so is this sign big enough that you're ready to teach a spinning babies workshop?
It's literally your birthplace.
And I never, I haven't been there to teach a workshop. It didn't work out that I taught a workshop there, but it was the impetus that says, okay, when you are called to do something, you don't have to be ready.
You just have to show up.
Yeah, 100%. I love that. That's also like such a, it's just very on brand for Gail, I feel like, to have that be the story. I'm like, naturally, it was a halo and not anything else that brought you into this.
Yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. And we just had so much from that first moment, so much synergy and she actually asked to come into leadership quite a few years ago. And in also in the essence of who I am, I said, not yet.
And I said, I will, I worked on creating the Spinning Babies Certified Parent Educator Program. That was kind of my first plea at Spinning Babies. I was really passionate about helping educators teach parents.
And I said, let me do that first. Let's see how it is to have me in the business in this way. And I said in 20, I think I said in 20, I think I said in 2022, we can talk about leadership. And so that's literally, that's literally when I came into leadership, being Spinning Babies.
I love that. It was an ease in. Yeah. And grateful for our relationship. And I think Gail's work is so important and caring for her baby is something that I feel is a real honor. And yeah, and I'm grateful to have the opportunity.
Yeah, I feel like your leadership shift had to happen with also an invitation from your birth hospital, right? That's the only thing that potentially catapults you into the next day. I feel like this work, I mean, the work in birth, right, like perinatal professionals, all of the work that we do is so multifaceted, right, that it can be sort of something that we get stuck in only one piece of it,
but it can look like so many different things. And I love that as a doula who now teaches doulas, right, and who like encourages doulas to think outside the box of what their business could be and what it could look like, I absolutely love hearing like, this is where I started and this is where I am now, in part because I'm like, who of us as doulas at like five or six knew what doulas were?
Very few of us, right? None of us are like my childhood aspiration. I mean, there might be some, I'm not saying none are, but it's not like a super well -known career where people as a child are like, that's what I want to do, right?
And so as you're even coming into it, the recognition that there are so many ways you can live in this world as a doula and impact birth and impact people who are impacting birth, right, is beautiful and awesome and wonderful.
And it can look like a transformation for you, too, you know, as a person, which is amazing. But it's not what we're talking about today. So writing myself in. So the purpose of this chat today is to chat about spinning babies and why I think it's a hugely helpful tool for doulas to have.
So I would love for you to give us a quick synopsis, if that's possible, of what spinning babies even is. Because oftentimes people hear the name and they're like, that sounds like acrobatics, right?
Like just something wildly ridiculous. And that's no shade to the name. But that is what people respond to me when I first say it to them. So I would love to hear kind of what is your your spiel about what spinning babies is about.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the name is important because it does get people's attention and Gayle sometimes says, I could have called it chin tucking babies, but it wouldn't have caught on as quickly.
A hundred percent.
And I think for me, what I find really important about Spinning Babies is that what it is, is it is approach, it's an approach for everyone. That really if, and it's about empowerment for parents, because it is, if you don't have, like I feel like sometimes we say, take the child with education to do the yoga, see a specialist, like all these things can be valuable, but not everybody has access to these things.
And what is really important with Spinning Babies is they introduce some really key concepts for creating more comfort in pregnancy, that pain is a, pain is a message, right? That if you are having pain in your pregnancy, we have the tendency like, oh, I got back pain or pelvic pain or something.
One of the first messages we get is that's normal, right? And, and it's, it's happens often, but it's, it's not normal, it's a body message. And so what I like about Spinning Babies is it's easily accessible for every parent.
They can, we, I think there is a big focus on what can you do yourself to have more comfort in pregnancy, to bring balance into your body. And, and through that, understand that your baby's position is not random.
The position the baby is in is a reflection of the space that's available for the baby. And there's lots of things you can do to make space for the baby in the womb. And, and so, you know, a lot of people, of course, associate Spinning Babies with the breach baby.
And that's because often the baby is breach or transverse. Often the reason is there isn't enough space in the lower part of the uterus, in the pelvis for the baby to turn head down. So it's an approach for everyone, but it can be, you know, very specific for people.
So that's the first part that, you know, that we can bring more comfort, you know, by using what we call the three principles, balance and big part of balance comes in pregnancy. And then the other two principles would be gravity and movement.
And I think in birth, you know, in the labor, we've often focused on gravity and movement, right? Like get upright, change your position. But if there isn't balance in the body, then these things often, you know, can't help.
And so Spinning Babies has sort of systematized first, what we call the three balances. So three activities that you can do in pregnancy to bring more balance in the body and you can use them specifically in labor.
And then, you know, understanding that the baby has to move through the pelvis and this is a little bit what Gail systematized is to realize, and people now talk about this like it's normal, right? It's the normal thing to talk about.
But actually, if we look back before Gail's work, people talked about changing position, but people didn't talk about changing position based on where's the baby in the pelvis. And so you do specific things if the baby is high on the pelvis, specific things if the baby's in the mid pelvis and specific things if the baby's at the outlet.
And so what I think, especially for doulas is that, you know, doulas have this really unique thing that we get to meet with people often prenatally and we get to know them really well and they tell us about their, you know, discomforts.
They tell us about their fears, you know, so we can help them to access their, some of these really easy things like how do I sit? How do I sleep? How do I get in and out of the car? Like really simple, straightforward things that can make a big impact.
And then, you know, in the birth, we're trained to see. We don't need an internal exam to see where she is or where she isn't, you know, like, and that is because all we do is stay for continue, you know, we're doing continuous support and we see and we smell and we feel these subtle changes.
And we also feel and see when they're not happening. And so spinning babies is an opportunity. I always say like, you know, it is a duelist job to do nothing well. Like it is our calm presence that we're not diagnosing, that we're not looking for the problem, that we are just fully present at birth.
So I think sometimes spinning babies is dangerous if you're a new doula, because you start to be in a diagnostic mode, like, oh, is something wrong? Oh, do I need to do something? And I always say to my doulas that I train, like do some bursts first and then come and do spinning babies so that you really embody like, what is it to be fully present?
But then you begin to realize that there's, you do notice when just being patient, you know, is not always the best thing to do. Sometimes there are these invitations to act and we often feel them very quickly after you've been at quite a few bursts.
And so then we can be actively patient, right? Like then we can do balancing activities that will help her own body make space for the baby. And so we're not busy. I am, we're never busy trying to manipulate the position of the baby.
Baby is wise, baby's gonna figure, the space is different in every body. You know, the baby will, the baby will figure it out. All we can do is help to support her to maximize the space where the baby is for the baby to find the rotation and descend.
And I think you asked for a short, but I get really excited, but that for me would be a little bit the essence is, you know, comfort in pregnancy and creating more ease in birth by being a little more systematized.
I love both of those things. And there are so many things. I mean, we could have five chats about this because we do align on many of these things. When I think about the shift in my business, when I learned spinning babies, there's a couple layers.
Like one is I had a bunch of OP clients that like posterior babies where then like more experienced doulas would be like, have you ever heard of the three balances? You know, at the time, those three sisters, right?
And so, and I was like, nope, I haven't heard of that. I don't know what it is, you know, a couple clients with prodromal labor and just like what is happening with this kid, you know? But I think what shifted the most in my practice and in my teaching is the work preemptively before birth, right, like the balancing work ahead of time and the understanding of the baby's journey so that we're not just looking at the discomfort of the pregnant person,
but we're also looking at where is the baby in this journey of birth and how can we help them do what they're trying to do, right? And one thing I sometimes say to my childbirth education students is like, these are ways to make space in the pelvis when we're thinking about the inlet, the mid pelvis, the outlet, I'm like, I've totally lost the words.
And I'm like, sometimes we know like the baby needs space here or the baby's posterior and we need to help them shift, right? Sometimes we know that. Sometimes we don't know that. Like sometimes the baby is just a little bit crooked and we don't really have that clear information but we can give them space in case they need it on that side, you know?
And that I think is hugely powerful for families who are kind of like, I think nervous about the process but also like want to understand what they're doing and why it impacts, right? And that is really, really powerful to be able to say like, when we put your leg like this, this is opening this part of your pelvis because we're in this part of labor and that's why we're doing this, right?
And because you sit like I sit, like a figure four, this side of your body is imbalanced in a different way than that side of your body is. That's gonna show up in pregnancy. This is how we help to balance that, right?
So that we're kind of providing the ability to do stuff but also the information around it where it feels productive and useful. And I'm very much of the opinion that like, we give people information and let them use it or not use it, right?
And so I'm always saying, this is something I recommend like these balancing activities, these daily activities, I recommend to everybody. But if you don't feel good about doing some of them, that's okay, right?
But this is kind of work that we can do to help your body prepare and all of us have some imbalance, right? That's just how we live our lives, you know? And that shows up in pregnancy and birth because we're doing this monumental thing with our body, you know?
So anyway, I love all of that. When you're thinking about a doula who, and I also love that you're like, new doulas, maybe attend a few births first, right? Like maybe don't do this before you've ever been to a birth.
How would you recommend someone kind of branching into learning about spinning babies and physiological births? If they're just like, this is the first time I've ever heard about this, you know?
Yeah, I mean, of course, my, my first recommendation is to go to an in -person spinning babies workshop, right? I think we, there is enough free information on our website for you to learn anything you want to know, but it is a lot to take in.
And I think, and I think when you go to an in -person workshop with a trainer that can walk you through it and more so that you're in community to do it. And that these, like what you say about, you know, the, the posterior labor, that all of these stories come to the surface and also that you can, you have a different kind of context.
And I like what I like about our workshop is often have midwives, doulas, birth, you know, body workers. It's often always a mixed group. And so you have a level of dialogue that I think is so important.
So I think if it's possible for you to look for a foundational workshop in your area, do that. And if that's, if that's not where you're at, you know, you can't afford it or there isn't one near you, then, you know, we have online courses on our website that you can take that will give you, you know, a foundation for it.
You could, we have the, the, I guess the most expensive, inexpensive opportunity. If you're like, I amount a tight budget, then I would say you can, you can download the parent class video. And that's a really good place, you know, to start.
And then we have our, you know, we have courses online that you can take as well. And I think people have taken the foundational workshop afterwards. If you are a childbirth educator, then you could take the spinning babies certified parent educator program.
And, and I really like that for being able to teach parents. I love the way it's like a three hour course that, that they can take, teach for parents and, and I teach it. I haven't had a chance to teach it a lot lately, but what I love about it is how the partners are like, this is, this makes so much sense.
Like help. And I can do things in pregnancy and you know, they love the anatomy. They love to learn, you know, what it all means and in a really simple, straightforward way. Um, and I think, you know, I think that, that it creates, um, it, it creates an opportunity to be more connected to your body, um, and help to prepare for what's to come in a relationship with baby.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I love that you have a variety of options. I think the website is definitely overwhelming if you don't have context for all the different things. But it is a good place to start kind of exploring and learning about like, what, what does this even mean?
What are we talking about with the three balances, you know, all of that is explained there. I do think I really recommend a foundational class. That's one thing, I think the ability to ask questions in real time was huge.
And some of the like, feel how it feels on your own body, right? Like, I remember we paired up and like measured each other's sit bones in the different positions, you know, where it was like, are they farther apart or closer together when we do this, you know, so that also gives you a concrete level of knowledge that allows you to take that into your work with a lot more confidence, rather than just being like,
I read this online, and I think I'm applying it correctly. And there's always a bit of that, especially when you're new, right? That's okay. It's you're going to feel a bit of like, I hope I'm doing this right.
But also, I think with time, it can become like, this is, I think my tools from spinning babies are something that I use at every single birth. And there's not very many tools that I use every single time, you know, and so it does become kind of a foundational part of how you work.
Yeah, so.
And I think as well, like one of the biggest things that like you said something that I echo as well is like when you bring this to your clients in pregnancy in this piece of empowerment knowledge and that they can make a difference for themselves, that what it does do is that you have less births that, you know, have a labor dystocia.
You have shorter births. It's just the reality. Like if I looked at my statistics for my practice and I was working full -time as a doula before and after I took the workshop, it's like night and day between them, right?
Like if my parents, if my clients would commit to the preparation and we talked about it ahead of time and often that I would, you know, even see my clients once a week for the last weeks of their pregnancy.
So we have that, you know, content and we can see where they're at with it. Then, you know, they were much more likely to have a smooth birth. And if they didn't, they had a lot of information about why they didn't.
Because sometimes, you know, you are where you are and then you walk away and say, I did everything. And I feel confident with where we ended up, you know? And I think that is so important. It's okay if the outcome, you know, was not what they expected if they were able to get the scene heard and they felt like they had a pathway to do the best they could.
Yeah. Well, and such a big part of it too is like, we don't control outcomes, right? Like birth is, is a journey every time. We don't know exactly what the path will be and how exactly it will end. Right.
But the stuff that I teach during pregnancy is also making your pregnancy easier. You know, I mean, that's the thing too, is like, I teach this stuff to folks having a C -section, not because they need to have a vaginal birth, but because your body has a hard time sometimes managing pregnancy, right?
Like the weight of the baby is heavy, you know? And so I think when we think about it also of just like, I'm benefiting my muscles, my physiology by doing this, even if vaginal birth is not the outcome that I'm headed towards, then we also take the pressure off of like, did you do it sufficiently, right, to have the outcome you wanted?
Because that's not, nothing in birth is a magical wand that creates that scenario. You know, so.
And also, if it's like, for instance, if it's your second baby, and you have a toddler at home, and you are lifting up your toddler every day, and you're doing laundry, and all of these things, some of the most simple changes can mean that you're not in pain.
Yes. That I had that with my second child, that I was like, why am I in so much pain? And realizing if I had had, because I dealt with it in my postpartum, some of the issues I had, and then learning what I know now, then I think if someone had talked to me in my pregnancy about how I was sitting, how I was carrying my child, you know, what I was doing, I would have had a different experience.
Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, a hundred percent, yeah. So in the show notes, we're gonna wrap up only because we could talk about this forever. In the show notes, I'm gonna make sure that everyone has the Spinning Babies website and their social media and a couple of resources on YouTube that I like from Gail.
And then Jennifer, is there anything else that you want our doulas to hear about before we finish for today?
Well, I just invite them to come in with curiosity and to know that our team, I think Spinning Babies was first embraced by the doulas and then was later embraced by the midwives and the hospitals and now we train entire teams in hospitals and I think what I would impart with the doulas is their, I mean, their work is so important in the being with women and being able to help families be guided into this process and I hope that they will join our community and find support in that because it is a lot to carry and I hope that the resources we offer can help them in that.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. And everyone else who's listening, you will see us in the next episode. Thank you so much. Okay. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the doula tips and tits podcast.
If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at hara doula. So we can celebrate alongside you. If you found this podcast helpful, we would so appreciate you taking a second to leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app that helps other doulas find us as we do this work together.
This podcast is intended as educational and entertainment. It is not medical advice or business advice. Please consult your own medical or legal team for your own needs around your health and your business.
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Spinning Babies believes that: “The human experience of childbirth can be nurtured to express our rights and ability to enjoy our innate physiology. Simply put, we help birth givers find ways to connect with their own bodies for the profound result of comfort in pregnancy and ease in birth. We believe that pregnancy, birth and postpartum are a sacred time for parents and babies. How we experience the transition from pregnancy to parenting is deeply impactful on those giving birth, and those being born. The quality of our choices reflect our social understanding as well as the options available.” spinningbabies.com Today we are talking with Jennifer Walking of Spinning Babies about how their programs and approach can add to doulas’ work and businesses!
Quote from Jennifer
“I guess what I found so hard when I was talking to these parents was you are growing a human being and you're spending nine months in fear of welcoming them into the world and I found that so hard and really where Gail and I connected was this idea that if we want to make the world a better place the way to do that is to have intact bonding and that. You know, how a baby arrives earthside matters and you have to raise human beings. I mean, this is a crazy job. Isn't it important that whenever we can, that you arrive at that point of meeting them, feeling powerful, feeling seen, feeling heard, and that the baby can arrive feeling safe, because otherwise we spend the rest of our lives trying to heal that. And that's where Gail and I kind of connected in that walk and she very quickly, it was at the exact moment that she was planning to start training, spinning baby's trainers. And so she looked at me and, you know, as Gail does it, she looked at me and she says, I saw this light above your head and I knew that you were gonna be one of my spinning babies trainers.”
Meet Jennifer Walker:
Jennifer Walker is the incoming and acting CEO of Spinning Babies®, dedicated to improving maternity care through inspiring and practical education. With 18 years experience attending births in the Netherlands, coupled with a background in theater, Jennifer brings a unique and dynamic perspective to her work as a birth care leader and international speaker.
Passionate about increasing understanding of physiological birth and its foundational importance to humanity, Jennifer believes that how we experience birth deeply impacts societal health. Jennifer the former chair of the Dutch National Doula Association (NBvD), founder of BiA Doula Training, and a Spinning Babies® Approved Trainer. Working closely with Spinning Babies® founder Gail Tully since 2015, Jennifer is committed to honoring Gail’s legacy and continuing to shift the paradigm of birth through a physiology first approach.
As she leads Spinning Babies® forward, Jennifer continues to inspire and educate, championing better birth experiences for families and advocating for improved maternity care worldwide.
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Kaely Daily is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services
It is sponsored by The Birth Prep Blueprint Childbirth Class
Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay
