Doulaing Before You’re a Doula with Jill Magoffin
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Transcript
Welcome to Dula Tips and Tits, the podcast where we cut through the noise and get real about what it takes to build a sustainable doula business. I'm Kaylee Harrod. I've been a doula informally for 14 years and full time for seven.
Around here, we don't sugarcoat stuff. We talk autonomy, owning your worth, creating a business that works for you. No fluff, no burnout, just the honest truth on how to be your own best boss. Let's get into today's episode.
Hello and welcome back to Dula Tips and Tits. Today we have a guest, Jill Magaffin. Am I saying your last name correctly? No. It's okay. It's Magoffin. Magoffin. As I said it, I was like, I literally just asked you.
It's okay. She is a doula and author based in California. Jill, welcome. Can you share with us how you became a doula and author? Good morning and good afternoon where you are. Basically, it's a funny story.
I always love babies and families. And when I was a nanny, like 18 years old, when the babies were sleeping, I would watch like a baby story on TLC. All those shows where they had these crazy births and knowing what I know now.
Wow. Okay. That was a bad scene. But I didn't know. I'm like, this is amazing. But I didn't want to be a doctor. So I never looked into anything to do with childbirth because I'm like, yeah, I can't do that.
So I just was a nanny and then I moved on to corporate life. But what I found myself doing was supporting my friends and family when they were in labor. And I just like, I loved it. And I always offered my services and I say services and I'll help you.
I love it. And one day I was at a birth of my best friends. And the midwife's like, oh, you're a doula. I said, no, my name is Jill. She's like, no, you're a doula. I'm like, no, I'm Jill. She's like, a doula, a doula.
I'm like, what is a doula? She's like, it's called doula. And it's basically what you're doing. You're supporting, you know, moms through their pregnancy and you're doing what they do. And I'm like, really?
Tell me more. Cause I don't want to kill someone. She's like, no, you don't do anything medical. It's literally what you're doing. And I'm like, Oh, I left that birth excited. I've looked some information up, found that, you know, They don't make much money.
And I was like, Oh, damn it. I knew. And I was like, Oh, More research. Fashion. I decided to take my training. I loved it. I fell in love with everyone that I, that I trained with and it was like the best thing on earth.
But I kept my corporate job because I was nervous. I had imposter syndrome. I can't do this. I can't quit my job. I was making six speakers. And I was like, I really can't afford this. But after a while I just felt burned out and I kept wanting to support.
families. And I felt this overwhelming desire. And I'm like, you know what, screw this, I'm done with my job. So I was at a friend's birth, someone actually met during my training, she was a doula. She hadn't really started yet, because she got pregnant immediately after with twins.
So I'm sitting there in her delivery room. And I looked at her, I'm like, you know, I'm putting my job, she's like, okay, good. I'm like, right now, I'm putting it right now. And I did exactly what everyone's like, don't do, don't quit your job until you have something else lined up.
So I did it the opposite of me. And I jumped, I quit my job, the boss stutter, she's like, what? I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to pursue my passion. And I haven't looked back. I love that.
And boom, I'm a doula. Yeah. I'm a doula. Yeah, I feel like it burned with that. Sorry. Yeah, literally. Yeah. Yeah. Mid -track is always the time to make a life decision like that. I think so. I mean, and my, you know, my client was like, Hey, good for you.
I don't really know what to say. But can you please rub my back? Because you know, that's what I need right now. But my contractions starting. Yeah, sorry, sorry. I'm back to you back to you. Right. And then I just, you know, did what every other new doula does.
And that's like soaked up everything. And I'll take this training and that training and I'll get certified in a million things. And wow, if I didn't have a mentor at that point, and I really wish I did, I did a lot, you know, short amount of time.
And yeah, I feel differently about that now. But I'm glad I have a, you know, I'm glad that I have all these skills that you know, I don't usually use, but I have these certificates for them. So cool.
There's so many pieces of paper. Literally, in a binder under my desk. I love it. I mean, that I that is one of the things I preach is like do just start taking every training that you see everywhere because there are tons of them and you will invest so much money and many of them are unnecessary, you know.
Really, a new doula should be perfecting what she should be doing best, which is being a doula, right? Doulaing, yes. So yeah, I definitely have changed that mind frame since. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
So then how did you come to be a children's book author? Oh man, so I love what I do so much. It's like a serious passion that I wanted to like tell the world, I'm a doula, look at me, you should do this.
And then I was like talking about this with families and like, are you a witch? I'm like, how'd you get a witch from a doula? Like, oh, you're a midwife. No, I don't do anything medical. Well, what are you good for?
So I wanted to share with the world that doulas are so important and we really help when needed. But there were no books, there was nothing. So we're all at these births, we're doing great, the parents love us, and then we take these pictures and then they move on with their life and they raise their children, they have a happy life, but who talks about the doula?
No one. So my first book, I wanted to write a love letter to the child from the doula and tell them, tell the child like how loved you were and how much the parents prepared for you and how a doula helped with that.
So it would get in the child's head, oh, this is like something that you can do when you grow up, you can help families. So it was like, I wanted to tell everyone how much I love them, because I love all my doula babies and families, but I also wanted to start the process of them thinking, oh, maybe I wanna be a doula when I grow up.
And it just went from there, like it's the most expensive hobby in the world. I make no money at it, I've lost money and I continue to do it, and now I have my fourth book in production right now. And this one literally is for children to buy, or the parents to buy for the child, to explain the role of a doula in the eyes of a 10 year old that is looking to become a doula because their aunt is a doula.
So I want this book in every library, every bookstore, everything. So right next to the book on scientists, doctors, I wanna be whatever is I wanna be a doula. I love that, I love that so much. Yeah, I have teenage kids and I talk to them all the time about the fact that like, everyone's asking them, what do you think you wanna do with your life at 14?
And I'm like, oh, I didn't even know my profession existed until I was probably 26. I'm like, I had never heard of a doula at all, ever, nor was anyone doing any kind of like training on that sort of thing in my hometown, at least when I was growing up.
And so I think that is huge, that's awesome. It makes me very happy. Yeah, yeah. It's a passion. I really want every kid to like, do I wanna be an astronaut? or do I want to be a doula? Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Yeah. I, as a doula with children, my, um, my youngest could teach childbirth ed. She's 10, um, because she, you know, has sat through so many classes. She also specifically has sworn off children because she knows too much about the process.
It's the best birth control in the world. She's like, I will own cats. Yeah. My eldest is like, um, never. Yeah. And my, unfortunately I had to take a placenta home for a client who was getting encapsulated.
I don't do that. I get the smell of placentas. I'm a horrible doula when it comes to that. So I was just, okay, I'm not alone. So I was holding it in the refrigerator and then I said, don't go into the back, um, the garage refrigerator.
Don't. And they're like, okay. And of course the child, they didn't listen. So they opened up the door and they see this container was sealed. Um, and they see like, what is it? That red thing in there?
I'm like, that's a placenta. I'm never giving birth as I slowly close the refrigerator door. Never. You're like, I did warn you. I told you not to go in. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I always tell my kids, I'm like, if you're scrolling through my text messages and you open one, there could be anything in there.
It could be literally anything. I was in the car with my son and a midwife called me and she was talking to me about, I think a mutual client, and she was talking about rectal pressure and how just real stuff that my son has never heard nor wanted to.
And I was trying to stop him so that I can push my son out of the car. Not while I was running, but we were apart and it wasn't fast enough. And I swear for the next two hours, my son had this look on his face.
Like he's seen something he'll never want to see again. I'm like, I'm, you know, I tried to explain what was said. He's like, I'm never having a baby. I'm like, okay. I respect that. I apologize that you had to hear that.
I tried to push it on. I tried to kick you out. Mom, I don't know why you do this. You see butts. I'm like, oh, all the time. I'm going to let this go and just say that you love what I do, but don't worry about me seeing butts.
Yeah. My 10 year old was like three and a half when I started this work. And, um, I remember at some point being like, she, she was like, this is not normal. You go to work and just see people naked.
I was like, yeah, it's not normal. You're right. It's a weird job. It's different. Yeah. I'm like, it's not for everyone. Okay. But not everyone is naked. Only one person usually. But, you know, for some people it's, some kids are like, really?
You help? You see a baby? Like, yes. And it's the most magical experience no matter how it happens. It's, it's worth so much to be in that room. And some of these kids, their eyes light up. I'm like, Oh, I see a little dude there, but not my kid.
My kids are like, no, I'm like, my heart's broken. Please don't be a doula. I tried. They're like, because you're a doula, you're not even going to be a grandma. Yeah, I hope that changes. I know, I know.
That's where my kids are as well. So tell me about what your practices looked like over the years. Like you said you mentioned that if you kind of knew what you knew now, you wouldn't have started out how you started out in terms of absorbing every training there's ever been.
So what has that journey looked like for you? It's definitely been a lot of life experiences. I've been doing this full time now for over six and part time for decades. In the beginning, I was just, I'm going to say something that might be controversial, but I think as doulas, we're mostly people pleasers.
And a lot of people, a lot of us doulas don't have any boundaries. And I had none and I'm still working on that to this day I would say I'm a teen doula like there's there's baby doulas teen doulas and then there's adult doulas and I'm like a tween doula.
And at the beginning, all I want to do is please, okay, I will be there when you're zero centimeters, and you're contracting once every 45 minutes because you need the support and I'm going to save you.
Yeah, no. That's not how it works. I didn't have a mentor when I, you know, took the initial training and I wish I did. So I just went out there and I was like I'm going to squeeze hips and save lives.
Yeah, no, that's not how it works. So over the years, as I experienced a lot of trauma and a lot of, you know, things that caused me to get sick, I've learned that you know I have to take care of myself and that we are very important in supporting clients but there is boundaries and we're there to support, and but we're there to support when it's needed and that is not in the very beginning and it's not needed to take a million different courses so you can say,
Oh, I learned, you know, I don't I'm gonna make it up like you know hair twisting in the Andes mountains so that could help with you know pain relief like girl slow down like perfect your trade as a doula learn all of the comfort care techniques learn the pros and cons of everything that that's going to be hit their way like learn your trade first, and I didn't do that I jumped into everything and then I slowed down.
And then I took the time to really understand what's happening in these hospitals, I'd like to say that I specialize in hospital births, I do do birth centers and home births and I absolutely love them.
But I believe that I am needed in the hospital here I am needed. No I'm not needed but like I want to work in the hospital to support these families that are getting hit with everything and then some.
And no matter what classes they take, they're not going to retain all the information. So I'd like to be their cheat sheet and provide them with the education so they can make the decisions that they feel comfortable making, because when they don't know all the information make the right decisions.
They make decisions and then they go back later. I'm like, did I do the right thing? I don't know. And that's where the trauma and everything comes in because it didn't feel confident. So I'm trying to focus on just being a doula, supporting and educating.
Yeah, I love that so much because my work, like, I'm sure if you've listened to the podcast, you hear my like trauma informed care, you know, soapbox that I get on. And that like retrospective look back of, of like, okay, was the outcome this particular outcome, whatever it is, my fault, because of a decision I made that I didn't understand, or I wish I hadn't made, or I didn't realize I had a choice in or whatever.
The trauma there is so significant. And part of like part of what I talk about with doulas when I'm working out when I'm, you know, coaching them and training them is the reality that Like you centering your patient, your client as the patient there, as the only person in that room giving birth is what is keeping them from having trauma, right?
It's, we're not there to not have C -sections right now. I mean, I know that gets toted all the time, right? Like C -section, less epidurals. I'm like, I don't give a flying fuck if you have an epidural, right?
Like what I want is for you to feel good about your decision, getting an epidural and not second guess yourself and make an informed decision about that epidural, right? Like it's not whether or not you have it.
It's that you knew what you were deciding and that you decided it and feel good about your decisions along the way, even when those decisions are hard. And like you said, like there are so many things that come up in the hospital and in the midst of labor, any decision feels like monumental, you know, and it's nearly impossible the way the pros and cons, as you contract, you know, so yeah, I mean,
I totally agree with you. And I think, you know, as a doula, we need to come in without an agenda, without a true philosophy. Like everyone's like, what's your philosophy on birth? I don't have one. All I care about is that your philosophy is supported and that, you know, the pros and cons of decisions that you're making because I mean, and I'm not trying to knock it.
There's a doula for everyone. And I'm not totally talk shit about anyone. Okay. So let me just, but I get interviews sometimes and they're like, I think that wouldn't take me because I want an epidural.
I'm like, one, well, that, that doula is obviously not for you, but two, and it makes you think, wow, is it, is it the doulas birth or is it the client's birth? Yeah. Yeah. Well, my first thought in that scenario is what happens when someone needs to transfer and get an epidural, right?
Like, like, how does that, how does that play out as your client support? Cause I've had those clients who are like, well, last time I was with the doula who I know I let her down because I had an epidural and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Like absolutely not. You don't owe that person anybody. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, I, if I can. if I can look back and hope for one thing with all my clients is that they know that I am so proud of each and every one of them.
Absolutely. They were so strong and such badasses because they chose what they wanted, and they did what they needed to do. And that's what mattered. But yeah, I'm not down for all this other stuff with coming in.
Like, you know, obviously, we all started for a reason, and I do love everything. But I had some bad births, and I've talked about it before, and I wouldn't want that on anyone. But I'm certainly not the just because of that.
Like, I've gone through my trauma, and I've dropped at the door so I can come in and support the way I need to without any agenda. Yeah. Focus who's in front of me, which is the client. Yeah, I love that.
I think if a new doula is going to get any other certification, it should be about things. Like, get through your new doulas, go through your own trauma, get it out, and really just be there. to not have anything affect your decision or anything affect how you're going to support them.
Yeah. That's number one. 100%. Well, and I mean, we see so many doulas doing this work because of their own trauma and trying to like fix that through the client care that they have. And that's not, no.
Yeah. And I, you know, it's easy. I am in therapy too. I had a very traumatic birth and it's one that I never want to have happen again. You know, it was a demise. You know, I find myself triggered in situations that kind of mimic that the one that was traumatic.
And I find myself kind of being like a little bit like overreactive. And I have to remind myself, this isn't that birth. There's no other. And I have to leave that trauma at the door or it cannot be that they need to have, but it's hard.
I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to acknowledge and validate it. It's no joke, the stuff that we've gone through, but it's a profession. And if you want to do this, right, you have to leave it at the door.
You have to. Well, and part of those boundaries and self -care, I think that make it sustainable for us is processing that stuff, right? Like knowing how to process taking action and processing, not brushing off our own participation in those traumatic events, you know, and the way that that impacts our bodies and our minds and our energy, you know, like all of that.
And then giving ourselves space when we need it to, to kind of regroup and come back, you know, and similarly to you, like I've had some really significant traumatic scenarios that there are, I mean, there are situations where you're like, Oh no, we're headed down that road, you know, you have to kind of be like, okay, I don't know where this road is going.
It's not that. And I cannot, you know, be reactive to this in the way that like it was that birth happening again, you know? And, and I think those tools. Like you said, like really having those tools in yourself and that self awareness is huge because anytime we're going into a birth scenario, we're absorbing that experience, you know?
And if we're coming in with our own stuff to put out into the experience, we're also, we're also changing it in a negative way, potentially, you know, because of how we're, yeah. Mixing the energy. Yeah.
The energy in the room should be the client's energy and focusing on being, you know, as positive. I hate to be toxic, but you know, to feel good about what you're doing and they're, they're working at it and strong.
And if I come in with my own, it's just disrupts things. And I don't want, so, you know, I find myself, if I'm feeling a little like triggered, I'd step out of the room for a second. I take some deep breaths before I call up here.
It is so important that as new doulas or doulas in general, that we have our people, that we can do pulsing. I'm having a moment. Can you hold space for me? Yeah. And work through that so you can be the best support person you can for that client.
Yeah. Well, and even having, having support people, I mean, I think for me, I think my like doula circle, that's like my people that I would call as a backup for my people, my clients, right? Those doulas have to be people that I trust to share that stuff with too.
I had a scenario, it's probably a year and a half ago that I had like processed through a really traumatic experience that another doula had had. And then she had another client that started down the road of that same experience in early labor.
And she called me and was just like, Kaylee, I'm like, I do not get triggered like this, but I'm so triggered. And I was like, I got it. Like I will, I will go to your client, you hang out with your therapist, figure out what's going on with you, you know, tell them whatever you'd like to tell them for me to be their backup doula.
And the, the birth ended up being very similar to the first one she experienced. And I was like, honestly, it would have been so hard for you to be there. And it is wise that you didn't go. And in that moment, like she has to honor that in her body too, because as doulas as were people pleasers, right?
I agree with you. So often we're like, well, my client needs me. And so I'm just going to put my own needs aside and go. And I'm like, no, that would have impacted everybody. If you came in, cause it wasn't, it wasn't the same outcome, right?
But the, the process of getting to the end of the birth looked very similar. And I'm like, the whole time you would have been freaking out about whether or not this was going to end like that one ended, you know, and you would have not been able to show up in a good way for your client, but also the impact on you later, even if your client didn't notice would have been tremendous, you know?
And so even just that, I think honoring our needs and our bodies is so vital to the sustainability of our work, you know? Yeah. And I start, I'll be honest with you. I'm not going to go, yes, yes. I, I agree with you 100%, but have I gotten to the point yet where I've stepped out of a birth because I'm overtired or whatever and I need someone to, no, I haven't done that yet.
need to because past week I've had 30 hour bursts and I haven't left. Um, and that's, that's not healthy and that's no good for anyone. Luckily I'm, you know, I'm, I, I, I believe in Reiki and mindful meditation.
So I was able to keep the energy and keep going. And I didn't until, you know, have the energy disrupted by bringing someone new in, we have to make it more, uh, a reality that sometimes we need to switch out or sometimes we just can't be a gap or whatever reason.
It doesn't mean we're just like flaking out and we're not responsible. It's that we're taking care of ourselves so we can take care of our clients, whether that be with that, with the person or some other doula.
And I know I need to work on that a lot. So I think for this year, I have to normalize that we need to utilize our backups more. We really do. Yeah. and have a fund to be able to afford to utilize them, right?
Like that's another piece of that is like, have the money to feel good about calling someone else in and have people that, you know, are going to be kick -ass doulas with your clients and take amazing care of them, you know, where you feel good about stepping out.
Yeah. No, I totally, I resonate with all of that. But it's definitely something that we should all work. I know I need to work on it for sure. Like today, I was telling you before we started, like I'm going to go to a backup birth.
I am actually the second backup. COVID is going around right now again. So people are, so I'm happy to support that birth. Now I'm walking to our room where I have no idea who they are or anything, but we'll get to know each other real quick and it will work out the best it can.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, on that note, like I think that backup, the ability to be a backup and walk into a stranger's birth is also a skill set that you learned in trial and error. If I have a strong personality, I'm like, I'm really like going and like, does it, hey, and I'm like, yeah, I know as a doula and it's, you know, well, we'll learn this, then I have to kind of sit back and just absorb the energy and kind of go with their vibe and,
you know, and see they're looking for, I don't just go in like, Hey, guns blaring. This is my jail. I can't do that. I wish I could, but I just can't. So I enjoy backup being a backup. I've done it. I did it on last week.
I left that birth basically with new friends because, you know, yeah. Yeah. It's definitely, I love that. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us today, especially when you have someone who's going to need you soon.
I appreciate you having me on. Of course, for everyone listening, I will have Jill's information in the show notes so you can connect with her and read her amazing books and then solicit your library to put them in there.
And we will see you in the next. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the doula tips and tits podcast. If you learned something today or had an aha moment, we'd love for you to share that on Instagram and tag us at hara doula, so we can celebrate alongside you.
If you found this podcast helpful, we would so appreciate you taking a second to leave a rating and a review on your favorite podcast app. That helps other doulas find us as we do this work together.
This podcast is intended as educational and entertainment. It is not medical advice or business advice. Please consult your own medical or legal team for your own needs around your health and your business.
We'll see you again soon.
Doulas all operate slightly differently. They start from different places for different reasons. So I’m highlighting that in a few upcoming episodes by speaking with some doulas about why they do this work and how they do this work and what motivates them! Listen to learn more!
Quote from Jill
“Then I just, you know, did what every other new doula does. And that's soaked up everything. I'll take this training and that training and I'll get certified in a million things. And wow, I didn't have a mentor at that point, and I really wish I did, I did a lot, in a short amount of time. I feel differently about that now. But I'm glad I have, you know, I'm glad that I have all these skills that you know, I don't usually use, but I have these certificates for them. There's so many pieces of paper. Literally, in a binder under my desk. I love it. I mean, that is one of the things I preach is don’t just start taking every training that you see everywhere because there are tons of them and you will invest so much money and many of them are unnecessary, you know.”
Meet Jill Magoffin:
I am a certified birth and postpartum doula as well as educator based in Simi Valley, California. My journey into this fulfilling career was inspired by my own birth experiences and a deep passion for supporting families through pregnancy, birth, and the early stages of parenthood. I believe in the power of informed choices and strive to provide families with the knowledge and support they need to have the birth experiences they desire.
In addition to my work as a doula, I'm a published author of three children's books and am currently working on my fourth. These books reflect my commitment to educating and nurturing both parents and children. I specialize in newborn care and am passionate about ensuring that every birthing person and their family feel empowered and cared for throughout their journey.
Connect with Jill:
Jillmagoffin.com
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jill-Magoffin/author
CONNECT with Kaely on TikTok or Instagram
https://www.tiktok.com/@doulacoach
https://www.instagram.com/Harroddoula/
If you like this episode, don't forget to share it to your Instagram stories and tag me @harroddoula
Doula Tips and Tits is produced by Kaely Harrod of Harrod Doula Services
It is sponsored by The Doula Biz Blueprint Self-Paced Class for Doulas Launching Successful and Sustainable Businesses!
Music by Madirfan: Hidden Place on Pixabay
